Dr. Cerynn Desjarlais, the program director for UND’s online Master of Arts in Counseling and Post-Graduate Certificate in K-12 School Counseling, joins an enrollment to review the program’s admission requirements and provide tips to help applicants complete their applications.
Transcript
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Hi, everyone. And thank you so much for taking the time to learn more about the admission requirements and application tips for The University of North Dakota’s online counseling programs. My name is Maggie and I’m an enrollment advisor for UND. I’m joined by Dr. Brynner Desjarlais, a Clinical Assistant Professor and the program director for UND’s online graduate counseling programs. Dr. Desjarlais earned both her masters of counseling and Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology from The University of North Dakota.
Dr. Desjarlais:
Hello. Thank you for the introduction, Maggie. I’m looking forward to sharing these tips.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
You’re so welcome. Together we will review each requirement one by one and provide a bit more detail on each as well as some more information on what we’re looking for in your materials and tips for success directly from Dr. Desjarlais. Let’s start with a quick snapshot of the admission requirements and items needed to submit your application for our online Master of Arts and Counseling Program, which include a Bachelor’s Degree, completion of Abnormal and Developmental Psychology courses and an overall undergraduate GPA of 2.75 or 3.0 in the last two years.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Additionally, you’ll need to provide a personal statement, written responses to questions on the application form letters of recommendation, a resume and a $35 non-refundable application fee. An online interview might be required with Dr. Desjarlais and her admissions team if there are missing or incomplete items, or if they have additional questions about your application. For our online post-graduate certificate and K-12 School Counseling program, we require a master’s degree in counseling and the same GPA requirements that I just mentioned. In addition, if you intend to apply for a School Counseling Credential in North Dakota, but don’t already have a North Dakota state teaching license, eventually you’ll be required to complete undergraduate coursework and educational psychology, classroom management and instruction methods. Please note, these are not UND requirements for full credentialing, but are expected of school counselors in North Dakota and must be completed within seven years of full credentialing.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
You will also need to have completed the school counseling supplemental application form and supply your personal statement, written responses to questions on the application form, recommendation letters of professional resume, a copy of your state’s school counselor credential or licensure requirements and the $35 application fee. The same rules apply here for the online interview. If your materials are not as complete as we think they should be, or if we have additional questions, we may request an interview. Now let’s take a look at each of these requirements one by one. Our online master’s program is open to students with a bachelor’s degree from a regionally accredited institution. There is no requirement around the specific field of study. We regularly have students apply and or be accepted with backgrounds in psychology, social work, sociology and teaching. Dr. Desjarlais, what are academic or professional backgrounds that you have seen?
Dr. Desjarlais:
It really varies. We often have students apply and or be accepted who are looking into changing their careers. And sometimes we find that students who are interested often come from helping backgrounds such as nursing or law, pre-med communications or hospital administration. We also find that people who are moving into retirement and folks who have been outside of school for a while, may want a career change or realize their original career path was not necessarily what they were passionate about. And it’s really never too late to take the time to pursue something that you deeply care about.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
I absolutely agree. This is a great program, even for those who don’t have a traditional counseling or psychology background, because they’ll be given the opportunity to learn those foundational skills they need if this wasn’t their original area of study. I also wanted to mention that the degree requirement for our online postgraduate certificate in K-12 counseling program is open to those who have a master’s degree in counseling. These folks have already earned their masters in some other counseling area, but want to refocus and re-specialize in K-12 school counseling.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
For both the masters and postgraduate certificate programs, we look for an overall undergraduate grade point average of at least 2.75 based on a 4.0 scale, or at least 3.0 for the last two years of undergraduate work. We require that you submit your official transcripts. And if you have any questions on how to do that, your enrollment advisor is happy to help. The admission team takes a holistic approach to the application process and looks for well-rounded individuals. Dr. Desjarlais, would you like to expand on that a little bit?
Dr. Desjarlais:
Good thing. Yeah. We make room to understand a low GPA if one is present. So coming into undergrad, many people don’t necessarily know what they want to do forever at that time and for many, they’re just adjusting to living away from home for the first time. For many people, including people of color, they may also be coming from community colleges, tribal schools or disadvantaged school systems and are having to adjust to a new community away from loved ones while also making the jump to a demanding undergraduate schedule, which can be quite challenging. And many individuals might also be student athletes or single parents, or they may have to work part-time or full-time jobs to support themselves while they’re attending their undergrad. Meanwhile, some people do well, but they may have had a personal life circumstance, which prevented them from getting the GPA that they had wanted to have in undergrad.
Dr. Desjarlais:
And so as a result, we often pay more attention to the final two year versus the four year GPA, which could give a student a couple years to adjust if needed. Improvement and progress over the degree are good to see. We would often prefer that students consider addressing hurdles and challenges they face throughout school in their application materials as that might help to explain a lower GPA if one is present. Really try to explain maybe what you were going through at the time, provide some info about whether or not you had to work to support yourself. Did not have the time, opportunity or privilege to be able to dedicate the time and resources you wanted to in school. And if you have a lower GPA and don’t address your GPA at all in your application materials, we will more than likely ask for an interview to clarify your experiences.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Your personal statement should be about two or three pages and outline your goals and objectives for seeking a master’s of arts and counseling or a postgraduate certificate in K-12 school counseling, including the track that you’re interested in. Your statement should also include details about your academic or professional accomplishments, as well as your career goals. Be sure to remember to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation, as the statement will also be acting as a sample of your writing. For the K-12 school counseling certificate, we also ask that you clearly identify the roles of a school counselor and how your experiences and interests relate to this role. Dr. Desjarlais, do you have anything in particular you’d like to see in a personal statement?
Dr. Desjarlais:
Yes. The more detail and explanation you provide in your statement of goals, the less likely it is that we’ll have to schedule an interview to clarify elements in your application. We really want to see your raw authentic self shine through so that we can see who you really are. And we also want explanations to things like if you had a lower GPA, what were you going through at the time that might have contributed to that? What brought you to this degree and to the field of counseling in general? Why are you interested in UND as a University and our counseling program specifically? This is a big thing in graduate school statements. Essentially, it’s important to explain why you are choosing that specific university and program and not just the field in general. It’s important that we understand your rationale or purpose for pursuing this degree at this university at this time. Look at the university mission statement, values, programs, faculty members and outline why you’re applying here specifically.
Dr. Desjarlais:
Why are you interested in an online counseling program as opposed to one on campus and what makes you want to join a primarily asynchronous program? What kind of counselor do you want to be? What kind of populations do you want to work with and why? What state do you want to get licensed in? This is important because the state you want to get licensed in is not always going to be where you’re applying from. And this step will save our licensing coordinator some time and energy too. What track or specialty counseling emphasis area are you interested in and why? This is really important to us. Make sure that you’ve done your homework and that you’ve already decided if you want to pursue school counseling, addictions counseling, community mental health counseling, or rehabilitation counseling. We suggest that you do your research. Look for information online, talk to professionals in the field and have a good idea of what direction you want to go when you apply.
Dr. Desjarlais:
This is important because switching tracks mid program isn’t easy or even possible in some cases. So you’ll find that it’s not as easy as it was to switch majors in undergrad. So if you switch tracks, you may miss specialized classes that you need to have, or you may have to take additional credits and it might take longer to graduate. Some tracks get very comprehensive evaluations that others don’t as well. And so it can be really hard to retroactively go back and complete those for faculty and for students. So it’s not an easy switch. If needed, talk to a career counselor for further information, contact people in the field and ask what they do for a living and why they do that. Ask what their day to day looks like, take initiative and figure out what kind of counselor you want to be ahead of time before you apply.
Dr. Desjarlais:
We understand that if there’s a true change of heart after getting into the program and the material that that can happen, but you really should have a solid grasp of what you’re getting into. And again in some cases, changing tracks may be difficult if not impossible, if too much time has passed in the program. So it’s really disheartening when we rate an application and we can’t discern what kind of counselor someone wants to be. And it demonstrates that the applicant has not taken the time they need to really understand the field. For the K-12 School Counseling Certificate, we ask that you also clearly identify the roles of a school counselor and how your experiences and interests relate to that role. The moral of the story is essentially that we need to know what led you here and why this program at this time. We don’t necessarily need a whole life story. We really only need what you feel comfortable telling us, but we do need to understand why you’re pursuing this path and where you see this path taking you.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
That’s some great insight into what you’re looking for, Dr. Desjarlais. Thank you. The next item on the list is written responses to our interview questions on the application form. The goal with these questions is to eliminate the need for a virtual interview. So we suggest that you answer these questions with as much detail and thought as you would an in person interview. Similar to your personal essay, keep in mind that these answers reflect a sample of your writing abilities. So please be sure to use correct spelling, grammar and punctuation. These questions are kind of a shorter version of what might be in your personal statement. So the more complete both items are, the less likely it will be that Dr. Desjarlais will have to conduct an interview. Some of these questions include what sparked your interest in the field, what strengths will you bring to the program, what barriers or challenges do you expect to see in the program? How well do you receive feedback and how well do you manage or plan for and meet deadlines. Dr. Desjarlais, do you have anything else you’d like to add regarding these questions?
Dr. Desjarlais:
Yes, I do. For the last question you mentioned, it’s important to understand how a student will manage time. Most are working full time or maybe parents, or have other important life roles or volunteer commitments and extracurriculars and some haven’t been to school in a long time. It’s rather common that we experience students who don’t realize how grueling, but how worth it graduate school can be. There’s a misnomer in society that going from undergrad to grad school is like moving from grade 11 to grade 12, where anyone could do it if they choose to. However, that’s not the case. There are really high expectations and standards to adhere to. And the amount of work involved in each course is significantly more than undergrad. So it really is a big shift. Students may not understand the time commitment involved. A good rule of thumb is to expect at least three hours per week of studying time for every one hour credit.
Dr. Desjarlais:
That means that if you are taking one course at three credits, you can expect approximately nine hours of reading/homework per week outside of watching lectures. If you’re taking two courses at three credits each, you can expect at least 18 hours of reading/homework per week. Keep in mind that some of our courses are more than three credits as well. I can imagine that hearing that can be a bit alarming for some people, but this is a program with high expectations and we offer a lot of support and resources to help students succeed. One point I also want to make is that there is often a disconnect between wanting to be in a helping profession and being able to ask for help.
Dr. Desjarlais:
People who are struggling with workload need to take the time to reach out to their student success coach, academic advisor, course graduate assistants and instructors, or other resources such as the writing center or smart thinking tutoring for example. In some cases, students also need to know when to utilize their social support network for help such as asking a partner, family member or friend for help with household tasks, chores, or childcare so that they can focus more time and energy on their schoolwork. In some cases, this also means obtaining their own counseling support if needed or when needed.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
I think that’s really important to point out, Dr. Desjarlais. Thank you. I wanted to add just a few more tips that apply to both the personal statement and these written responses to questions on the application form. First, the admissions panel would rather see too much information than not enough. Just three sentences are not going to cut it. In addition, please be authentic and showcase your true self goals and ambitions. And last but certainly not least, poor spelling, grammar and writing mechanics is a no-no. These application items are an opportunity to showcase your professionalism and writing abilities. If your writing isn’t up to par, you’ll likely struggle in grad school. We have some resources to help students with that, but this is a skill that should be developed with intentionality well in advance. When we see bad grammar, we worry either you don’t care about the application enough to proofread it or that you may not succeed in grad school because writing makes up a huge part of graduate school.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
In addition to your personal statement and your written answers to the above mentioned questions, we will require three professional letters of recommendation from those who can comment on your academic abilities. We do prefer that they are written by someone in a position of authority who knows you professionally like a supervisor, professor, or academic advisor who can give a more objective perspective and won’t feel like they have to give you a good rating. These letters should speak to your professionalism and your ability to succeed in a graduate level program. We ask that you do not include letters from friends, family members, pastors, or your own counselor or other personal contacts, such as a partner or partners, parents or family friends.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Additionally, please do not include letters from the patients/clients you work with or students you’re teaching or your patients or students parents or caregivers because they could be seen as having power and authority over them, which could sway how they write the letter, possibly giving you a more positive reference than is realistic and or they may feel compelled to write a positive letter for you fearing you might not continue services with them if they do not comply, which would be an ethical concern. Similarly, we also don’t like to see letters from someone in a position of less authority than you like an employee. This would be unethical because they would likely rate you higher due to your ability to influence their success or status in a company. Dr. Desjarlais, is there anything you’d like to add here?
Dr. Desjarlais:
Thanks, Maggie. Yes. In rare circumstances, we would maybe consider a letter from someone who is an equal level coworker or colleague, because they’ve seen you in action and they know you professionally, but we much prefer the letter to come from someone who’s in a place of authority. We’re also sometimes a bit more lenient for stay at home parents or others who have been out of work or school for an extended period of time due to extenuating circumstances who are ready to come back into the workforce. However, in those cases, we still recommend that you include references from volunteer work you did or organizations you are a part of like parent-teacher organizations. If you’ve not completed any volunteer work or professional work during this time, it may be important to do so to some degree, if possible, as this shows ongoing investment in community efforts. If any of your recommendations include concerning information or from an unreliable source, we’ll likely set up an interview.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
On your resume, we will want to see more than your title and when you were in that role. That means including skills, tasks and accomplishments that might be applicable in and transferable to the counseling field. Information such as what did you do at that job? What skills and knowledge did you use? What are your people skills like? Did you manage people or deadlines, use spreadsheets, manage complaints. For stay at home parents or folks out of the industry for a while, we still want to know your professional history and education and any volunteer or extracurriculars you’ve been involved in. Do you have anything else to speak to regarding resumes, Dr. Desjarlais?
Dr. Desjarlais:
I think it’s important to be self aware in this situation. If you think you have time for grad school, but don’t feel like you’re a good candidate right now, take a year to improve your standing, do some training or volunteer or take a traditional first aid or mental health first aid course. Those things can help to boost your resume and standing for the program. Personally, I took a year off before grad school, where I worked as a psychometrist, took extra psychology classes and worked to enhance my GPA and GRE scores to become a more competitive applicant. I also volunteered, attended conferences, took additional trainings and did other things to help me become an overall better candidate and applicant.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
That’s some great advice, Dr. Desjarlais. Thank you. The next requirement is for our master’s program only. You must complete abnormal psychology and developmental psychology courses or their equivalencies at the undergraduate level. However, if you haven’t completed these courses, that’s not the end all be all. You can be accepted without provision, but you will need to either complete UND’s five credit foundations and counseling course through the master’s in counseling degree program or complete these two courses outside of the program prior to beginning your first term. Dr. Desjarlais, can you speak to some exceptions and other pieces of this requirement?
Dr. Desjarlais:
Sure thing. A couple of other things to note are that sometimes we see students who have taken psychopathology, and that course is often substantially equivalent to abnormal psychology and can often be accepted to meet the abnormal psych criteria. However, we will not accept adolescent development or child developmental courses only as a substitution for developmental psychology. These sorts of courses only cover a small segment of the lifespan population. We require a developmental course that covers the whole lifespan from infants to elders. Please also note that developmental psychology covers everything from sensation, perception, genetics, neurological and physiological changes, human sexuality, developmental life roles, relationships, identity and topics related to death and dying. So please do not be mistaken in thinking that other psychology courses will cover this material. We do require developmental psychology to ensure that a strong foundation is present in all of these areas of populations across the entire lifespan.
Dr. Desjarlais:
Please also note that if we see a lower grade like a C or a D on your abnormal or developmental psych courses, or if the courses were taken too long ago, such as 15 or 20 years ago or so, we may recommend that students take our Foundations Course because you might not have a firm grasp of the concepts, or you may have forgotten the basics, which you’ll need to build on as you move throughout the rest of the program. Also information changes over time. So for those who took abnormal psych 15 years ago, this may not be up to date information because the DSM or Diagnostic and Statistical Manual version changes over time, along with the diagnosis in it. So if you’ve taken courses that you think might qualify but if you’re unsure, make sure that you include the course syllabi for the course you think might count in your application for review. This will help us to make a decision faster and potentially without needing an interview.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Students who intend to apply for a school counseling credential in North Dakota, but do not have a North Dakota state teaching license regardless of the field in which you earned your master’s degree should be aware that to become a fully licensed school counselor, you will need to eventually complete some undergraduate coursework and educational psychology classroom management and instruction methods. Please also note that UND does not require you to complete these courses and they are not considered to be a part of your certificate program of study or a prerequisite requirement on our part. There are courses that are required by the state of North Dakota if you wish to become a full credentialed school counselor and do not already have a teaching license.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
If you aren’t applying for school counseling credentialing in North Dakota, this will not apply to you. However, if you intend to be eligible for a school counselor credential in any state other than North Dakota, we’ll need you to include a copy of your state’s school counselor credential or licensure requirements. Finally, the online interview. If there are gaps in your application or things that need clarification, Dr. Desjarlais or an admission staff member will reach out to you to schedule an interview. This isn’t preferred, but sometimes necessary to get a better idea of your experiences, qualifications and background. Dr. Desjarlais, care to expand?
Dr. Desjarlais:
As you said, we set up virtual interviews with applicants, typically via Zoom when we need to get clarity on application materials, or get more context and information from applicants who didn’t supply enough detail in the application for us to get a good view of who they are and what their goals are good grades and or good references don’t make up for a lack of detail in the personal statement and the written interview questions, because they’re so important. It’s really important to help our admissions committee understand what states you want to get licensed in and what counseling emphasis area or track you’re applying for. If we’re unsure of this information, we may also require a virtual interview. These interviews may include one to three people from the admissions committee and usually last about half an hour, but they may run up to one hour. So be sure to budget time for that if we request an interview with you. One other thing to note is that these interviews will be scheduled in central standard time or CST. So please pay attention to time zone changes if applicable.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Now that we reviewed all the application requirements, Dr. Desjarlais, would you mind sharing some other considerations you take into account when reviewing an applicant?
Dr. Desjarlais:
We take a lot of things in a consideration when reviewing applications. In particular, it’s important that we take into account multicultural considerations. We don’t want students who are going to be harmful to the public by discriminating against others or holding explicit biases about any populations or groups. If we notice micro assaults or overt wording suggesting discriminatory beliefs or values, I will be concerned.
Dr. Desjarlais:
It’s important to ensure that our students will treat everyone respectfully, including people of all ages, races, ethnicities, nationalities and also not discriminate against others based on gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, ability status or religious and spiritual beliefs as this would be unethical within our field of counseling. There are also some themes and characteristics that we often look for in applicants. For instance, someone who may be a good candidate to become a counselor may be someone who values social justice and is committed to valuing all people and not discriminating against anyone.
Dr. Desjarlais:
It could be someone who has a heart for serving or helping people in a compassionate and empathetic way. And it could be someone who’s dedicated to helping diverse populations and communities and someone who has depth of character and who does not speak to issues at a surface level. So for instance, maybe they identify as LGBTQIA+ and they want to help that population and community. And they want to be the first person to open a rural clinic that explicitly serves that population or perhaps there’s someone who’s willing to say that there’s a problem with this system and they want to be someone who makes a steady effort to advocate to change it. So for instance, they may say that they did not have X, Y, Z growing up and so they wanted to change that for others in the future. If someone identifies as white, perhaps they may discuss concerns when they notice people of color being disrespected or discriminated against and how they wish to become an ally.
Dr. Desjarlais:
It’s helpful to see when applicants have a desire to make the world a more positive place filled with compassion and empathy. In some cases, applicants may have had their own experience, whether it’s personal, family or friend related that has led them to this field. Perhaps they may be someone who’s experienced an addiction and overcame these concerns. And now they want to become a role model and help others. Or perhaps there’s someone who grew up in poverty and overcame a number of obstacles to get where they are today. Perhaps they know someone who can completed suicide and this had a large impact on them and they’re hoping to prevent this for others. Some people may have had a transformative experience in their lives and have overcome a lot of things. This shows resiliency and these folks can become great role models for the community. In other cases, folks may not have experienced adversity, but perhaps they had a mentor in the field and they’re inspired by them or how they’ve helped their communities.
Dr. Desjarlais:
And they want to follow in their footsteps. Perhaps there’s someone who is patient and caring and enjoys helping people and seeing them prosper and overcome concerns. Things that may not matter as much as some applicants think they do include when people say that they are the person that everyone comes to for advice or that they give good advice. Well, that’s nice and may mean that they’re approachable. Counseling is not really about advice giving. It’s about helping people define what works for them and discover their own solution to concerns and learning skills to manage these things autonomously, as opposed to going others to get advice or having other folks telling them what to do.
Dr. Desjarlais:
Speaking from experience, a graduate counseling program can be demanding. Some days you’ll want to give up, but at the end of the day, if you can achieve the career you want helping people, it will be worth the hard work and effort you put into it. This is a rigorous program and can help set you up with the skills and knowledge you need to become a great counselor. This is also a very serious program because you’re not just taking classes. You’re impacting people’s lives. For instance, you may end up reporting child abuse or neglect and performing risk assessments in safety planning to make sure that people don’t hurt themselves or others. You might be the only person that a client feels they can confide in and they trust you to care for them ethically, responsibly and in a multiculturally sensitive manner. It’s also important to be aware that being a counselor in training is not always going to be nice if you want to join the program because helping people makes you feel good, take a moment to reflect on that.
Dr. Desjarlais:
Sometimes your clients may not treat you the best. You might be mistreated by them at times if they’re having a bad day, or if they have a particularly difficult personality. Sometimes they may also be resistant to counseling and they may be court mandated or be there and attending because their partner wants them to. It won’t always be easy working with clients and they may not always be thankful for your services or even want to confide in you. Things don’t always work out with your clients and they don’t always see the progress you had hoped for. Sometimes they relapse from addictions or engage in recidivism and become incarcerated. It’s important to know that there are ups and downs and costs and benefits to working in any industry and counseling is the same, but there can also be moments that are amazing and you’ll know that you genuinely impacted someone’s life for the better and helped them obtain meaningful change and progress and work through crisis situations and concerns. And other times it won’t feel like that at all.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Thanks so much for sharing that, Dr. Deajarlais. Before we close out, I have a few final tips I want to share after working with thousands of students on their applications over the years. First, if you have questions or unsure about something when filling out the application, just ask. Your enrollment advisor is dedicated to your success and helping you. Get as much information and help as you can on the front end to make the backend process go quicker and smoother. Next, I would suggest using the more formal title of Dr. on your application materials when a addressing Dr. Desjarlais, as opposed to Ms, miss or misses.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
For example, I recommend following this rule in all your professional and academic interactions with your professors, unless told otherwise as this conveys respect for their knowledge and training in the subject, and maybe best to default to more formal titles until a relationship is established with someone. And last but certainly not least, we mentioned it a few times earlier, but take the time to research each counseling emphasis area and track and potential career path and apply to the program with an idea of which track you’re interested in and why. That’s all the tips that I have. Dr. Desjarlais, is there anything I missed?
Dr. Desjarlais:
That’s it, Maggie. Thank you for your time and help with this and best of luck to all of you who are applying to our program. I commend you for considering this path and I hope that we get to help you along in your journey.
Maggie, Enrollment Advisor:
Again, I’d like to thank you for taking the time to learn more about the admission requirements and application process with us today. If you have any questions or ready to get started on your application for our online counseling programs, please reach out to your enrollment advisor. You might also call or text (701) 620-6090 or send an email to admissions@onlinedegrees.und.edu and someone from my team will get back to you soon. We looked forward to hearing from you.